Kashmir Affairs - Security & Conflict Analysis of Kashmir

In Poonch, how do you think people have been affected by the Kashmir conflict, particularly at the time of partition?
At that time I was not born, my date of birth is 1950 and the conflict was in 1947, but I have seen the wars of 1965 and that of 1971 and the destruction in which many people suffered, especially at the border lines. In 1971, even my father was injured and it was the commoners that did their full best to help. Even if a Musalman was injured we helped. The politicians and the so called social workers played a very limited role in this.

How did people particularly suffer?
They were uprooted from their homes; they left their houses and everything in it. Before partition, Poonch was a state which was very prosperous, with the conflict it became a backward area, and with terrorism it becomes more backwards. Actually, people suffered from both sides; by the infiltrators and from the harassment by the forces. Many human rights violations were committed, not only then but also in recent years, and with the suffering people become half. I have seen their suffering with my own eyes.

But what did you see exactly, what type of human rights violations?
For example, in someone’s house the infiltrators enter with guns and demand to be fed. Then the people of the household will be arrested and harassed by the forces, but at gun point anybody would feed them, we call that ‘sarkari gaysh’. Also if a person was involved in some terrorist activity, and the forces could not catch him, then the forces would capture his brother or parents and torture them, but what would they know?

More specifically to this area, militancy started in 1996, ’97, quite late as compared to the Kashmir Valley; how did people suffer here from this?
Since this area is near the border, there was a lot of illegal border crossings and so the area was infiltrated by both the armed forces and militants. This caused a lot of tension, it was difficult and dangerous move around, especially in the evenings. After 5pm, if someone needed to go to the hospital, it was very difficult. Due to this people were fearful and migrated to the cities. Now the situation is better and people can even cross the border [legally] with no tension, for example, with this Rawalakot-Poonch bus service. The tension between India and Pakistan has finished here and the hate between the people has ended with the bus service and thus there is positive interaction across the border. So in one way militancy has had a positive effect among the locals; it has made the Hindustanis want to meet Pakistanis and vice-versa, they are both eager to meet.

What has been the role of the army in this area?
There is no doubt that the army is playing a positive role but sometimes it happens that if there is firing from one house in a village, the army retaliates on all village members and harasses everyone. They have done a lot of damage with retaliation even though the government talks about zero tolerance to human rights violations. Although through operation Subhavan, the army has done a lot for schools, setting up community halls and hospitals.

What is your opinion about the role of the army in Kashmir Valley?
In the valley, there are people everywhere and there is no security, in whichever way there is an incident [by militants] that is the way the army are going to retaliate.

In the Valley people protest for the removal of the army, as many have suffered in their hands, whereas here in Poonch many protest against their removal as they feel they provide them with security. Can you comment on this difference?
In Kashmir Valley the majority are Muslims and from the beginning they have been demanding azaadi [freedom], but Jammu province is mainly Hindu populated, so the reaction of the army is different. Here, in Poonch particularly, our people; Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs, are all living as a conglomerate, but in the valley the position is different.

What do you think is keeping this 60 year old conflict going?
First of all it is political; due to the votes, the political parties keep changing, from National Conference to PDP, and their policies may differ and so this does not help the peace process. Some people are fighting for elections based on castism, this aggravates the situation. The political people are also unfair in electing successors, for example, Farooq Abdullah will be Chief Minister, and then his son will be. In the meanwhile, the poor don’t know what the political people are doing. And in all this confusion, another factor is unemployment; it is not difficult to persuade the unemployed youth who are desperate to earn to pick up the gun. Then our religious leaders are weak; they encourage communalism for their political gains, this is also a political issue.

What is the role of Pakistan in militancy?
The Pakistan role is known via the media, for example, people say there are training camps there. Indian blames Pakistan for all this, but Pakistan says there is no proof. But the fact is there is militancy, and where does it come from? The Sudanese and the Afghans come; they all come through Pakistan. Pakistan is aware of this, and if this is addressed, I believe militancy will come to an end.

With the current peace process and all the CBMs; do you think the governments are sincere or are they showing off?
The biggest talk is about people to people interaction across the border, but it is the journalists and the political people that are coming and going, not the locals, the locals are dying. So for the sake of the local people they are not sincere with their CBMs. There must be sincerity in this manner.

Are the Indian side actually sincere in resolving this conflict?
Comparatively to Pakistan they are more sincere

Are the international community sincere too such USA, UK, or France?
The world is powerful, especially these countries and it is they that are running India and Pakistan, especially Pakistan.

In your opinion how can this issue be resolved?
Through more people to people interaction, then the government will have to heed to the masses and their protests. The border should be kept open to allow for people to interact and unite. Trade will also improve matters. Until this interaction does not happen, no other issues can be resolved.

Also, we understand that the media has a big role, for a solution, for highlighting an issue. The media person should be so honest that the reality is portrayed. Many local people do not have the opportunity to come to you or the media, but the political representatives are not representative of the country or of the people. You should see what happens in the parliament; these political people who spend crores on their personal needs; how can they represent the poor, the locals and their suffering. The role of the media is more powerful than that of leaders. The right information must be sent to people to know the reality, there should be no favouritism.

Do you think the international community has a role to play in its solution?
They themselves say it is not their role, but those nations on which India and Pakistan are dependant, can play a big role by particularly putting pressure on them to close this ‘wall’ and open up the borders.

Your daughter told me a little bit about you that during the Sikh uprising at the time of Indira Ghandi you were arrested and jailed. Can you talk about that?
[Smiling] That was a time where who ever spoke against the government and against Indira Ghandi and her family, they curbed them. We were religious person and around the time of 1984, the government tried to curb religious persons and our heritage. We spoke against it and they picked us up for telling the truth. For about 3 years and 6 months in various jails; in Jammu and Kashmir, Delhi, Ludhiana, Amritsar.

So just because the government didn’t like you, they falsely accused and arrested you?
Yes, that’s right.

How did they treat you?
They treated us like a detainee guilty of crime. They did a lot .. [silence].

Did you ever think you were going to die?
Yes, I remained in death cell for 11 months in Uttar Pradesh.

Who was supporting your family at that time and did you get to see them whilst you were in jail?
My family, my father was supporting them. I only saw them once, when they found out where I was they visited me, that was when in was in Kashmir.

How did you get your freedom at the end of it?
The high court of Jammu and Kashmir released me. Subsequently, I was also dismissed from service and I also went to court for that and I got my service back after that.

Any other comments about Kashmir?
Only that our prayer is that this issue will reach a solution soon, that human right violations are ceased, the poor people have peace and freedom. And Bhagwan [God] gives us all understanding to reach a solution. [Prayer call from a mosque heard in background]

Poonch, 02/12/06